<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1334</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/10/99 5:25:03 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 10 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1334<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)<BR>
Re: Nth Provincial Flamewar<BR>
Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
RE: Cultures (WAS Evolution...) Longish<BR>
Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
Re: Consumer products in 3I<BR>
RE: Zhodani PoWs<BR>
re: recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
RE: recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
elfman@pacificnet.net<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
MArc Millers T5 Webpage<BR>
Dev Landrel<BR>
Vilani Dictionary<BR>
RE:  ...Rememberance<BR>
Re: Zhodani PoWs<BR>
Re: Cultures (WAS Evolution...) Longish<BR>
Re: Vilani Dictionary<BR>
Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
Re: ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
Re: Travshorts II<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:48:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Coke for Kiri (OT)<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Frank wrote :<BR>
> ---<BR>
> First there was<BR>
> <BR>
> "A Canticle for Liebowitz"<BR>
> <BR>
> then the newly topical<BR>
> <BR>
> "Flowers for Algernon"<BR>
> <BR>
> and now<BR>
> <BR>
> "A Coke for Kiri"<BR>
> ---<BR>
> <BR>
> Well I guess I'll have to read "A coke for Kiri" as I've read the other<BR>
> two..:)<BR>
> <BR>
> LOL<BR>
> <BR>
That would mean someone has got to write it...  I'm still busy with two<BR>
zines (Vanguard Dossier, as reviewed in CBG #1000, is being resurrected<BR>
and APA-Dimentia has passed from First Writer of Ket to the infamous<BR>
Tiamat) and the Sime~Gen in Japan stories that Jean encouraged me to<BR>
write!<BR>
<BR>
Hmm... Hiroshi does purr... I have always liked cats...  I wonder if I<BR>
would be compatible with an Aslan in some TU somewhere???<BR>
<BR>
But isn't it barbed?<BR>
<BR>
(I wouldn't be interested in the comfy shoes type of Aslan...)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan					 93!  Thou Art God <BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:48:41 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Nth Provincial Flamewar<BR>
<BR>
Kurtis Rodgers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I think I speak for all of us when I say that the State of Texas finds your<BR>
> 'perdicament' quite amusing.   : P<BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav (no, really!):  A tiny group of separatists, consisting mainly of<BR>
> lunatic discontents, tax dodgers and self-taught lawyers, insist that the<BR>
> treaties making their planet/nation/enclave part of the Imperium are<BR>
> invalid.  They further insist they are the actual legitimate governing body<BR>
> of their planet/nation/enclave, even to the point of setting up 'embassies'<BR>
> and generating official-looking red tape to back their claims.  They have<BR>
> all granted themselves high ranking titles in this imaginary state (the<BR>
> twitchy triggerman is the General of the planet/nation/enclave defense<BR>
> force, their leader is the President/PM/Grand Poobah of the<BR>
> planet/nation/enclave, etc).  They view the Imperium as a occupying 'foreign<BR>
> power', and are devilishly clever at using the 3I's own bureaucracy against<BR>
> itself.  Despite causing millions/billions/trillions of credit fraud,<BR>
> authorities are hampered in their efforts against these separatists because<BR>
> _nobody_ takes them seriously.<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Imperium isn't hampered in it's actions like the FBI<BR>
is...notice...those folks in Montana held out a long time, the ones in<BR>
Texas folded the second that the Texas Rangers were sicced on 'em ;-)<BR>
<BR>
If they're causing m/b/trillions of credit fraud, that's a direct<BR>
interference with interstellar trade, and they can expect their compound<BR>
to be softened up with a few dozen orbital deadfall strikes followed by<BR>
the usual mopping up action by the Imperial Marines.<BR>
<BR>
If they're dispersed, well the IISS Intelligence service steps in, and<BR>
they just vanish one day.<BR>
<BR>
People _do_ tend to take fraud seriously.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:07:28 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
<BR>
> FW: (Fwd) FW: IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......In time for Remembrance Day..... <BR>
<BR>
Not to rain on your parade, but I read this list precisely, among <BR>
other things, to forget that there is people out there who choose to <BR>
be soldiers and are ready to kill those of us who choose peace. You <BR>
are entitled to your opinions, but I find this kind of things <BR>
(specially when they are so long and band-wasting) barely appropriate <BR>
for the TRAVELLER mailing list.<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer (sorry guys, I am having a bad day which has not <BR>
been made better by the referred email).<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
Department of Economics, University of Vienna.<BR>
Hohenstaufengasse, 9. 1010 Vienna (Austria)<BR>
Tlf: (+43-1) 4277 37438  Fax: (+43-1) 4277 9374<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:20:39 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Cultures (WAS Evolution...) Longish<BR>
<BR>
Peez wrote:<BR>
> Anyone remember the cheesy sci-fi about the humans on the Arc?<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't that "Starlost"?  (Very-low budget TV Sci-Fi.)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:31:22 +0000<BR>
From: "Greg Aldridge" <Greg.Aldridge@marconicomms.com><BR>
Subject: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
<BR>
>PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many people as<BR>
>you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our<BR>
>U.S.and Canadian service men and women for our being able to celebrate<BR>
>these festivities.<BR>
<BR>
What about the Brits, ANZACs, French, etc?!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
     Greg Aldridge      | "Since light travels faster than sound, isn't<BR>
   Software Engineer,   | that why some people appear bright until you<BR>
   EASAMS Engineering   |              hear them speak?"<BR>
        Systems         |<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
   Email: Greg.Aldridge@marconicomms.com    Tel: 01245 353221 x4437<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
IMTU tc tm tn t4+ tg ru+ ge(+) 3i+ c+ jt au- ls+ pi ta-- he as vi sy+ so<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:48:02 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Consumer products in 3I<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 23:53:04 EST<BR>
> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
> <BR>
> Softdrinks, recreational drugs, exotic alcohols, weapons....:-)<BR>
<BR>
This is totally off the primary topic of this thread, but the "ubiquitous<BR>
weapons brand" idea reminded me of something.<BR>
<BR>
In Greg Bear's _Eternity_, part of the story is set on a parallel Earth<BR>
where Alexander lived to a ripe old age, consolidating his conquests into<BR>
a stable empire.  By the present day, the Greek-Egyptian empire rules most<BR>
of the world.<BR>
<BR>
At one point in the story, there is an offhand reference to a group of<BR>
palace security troups carry Judaean submachine guns.  It took me a second<BR>
to get it, then I laughed out loud.  I guess some things are constant<BR>
across all the multiverse...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:48:02 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Zhodani PoWs<BR>
<BR>
Raymond Pullar wrote:<BR>
> Even more amusingly, the rescuers locate the world upon which<BR>
> the "PoWs" are being "held" and discover that they are indeed<BR>
> former Imperial combatants but that they are now *voluntarily*<BR>
> living as good Zhodani proles having "seen the light" and<BR>
> defected to the obviously superior society of the Consulate.<BR>
> They will obviously resist strongly any attempts to forcibly<BR>
> return them to the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds alot like a ST:TNG episode (forget the name but I think it<BR>
was a two-parter) where  Klingon  POWs  were  living  with  their<BR>
Romulan captors.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Proverb: Foolish are those who play Twister on the stairs."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:12:29 -0500<BR>
From: Walter Smith <SmithW@HARTWICK.EDU><BR>
Subject: re: recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
I think we'll find recovery vehicles for Grav Tanks built at TL8, 7, or even<BR>
below.<BR>
<BR>
Many worlds in the Imperium have low tech levels, but will see a need<BR>
to buy higher-tech defensive equipment, at steep prices. There's<BR>
really no point in building TL 6 tanks, if your most probable opponent<BR>
will be landing TL12+ grav vehicles from space...it would be better<BR>
for you to buy some TL 12+ grav vehicles, at least more than you <BR>
expect a corsair, raider or star viking to bring with them. <BR>
<BR>
(Of course, this only applies if your world is unified and relatively stable.<BR>
If you're balkanized or have significant insurgents, build what you can<BR>
and buy what you can.)<BR>
<BR>
You would build support equipment at the local tech level, if possible. <BR>
A TL7 truck with a crane and a lowboy trailer could probably recover a <BR>
disabled grav vehicle, as could a TL 7 heavy-lift helicopter or even a <BR>
zeppelin. Such vehicles might have a problem keeping up with grav <BR>
formations, but will cost a lot less to build and maintain and may be<BR>
easily convertable from what you're generally using locally for cargo <BR>
transport.<BR>
<BR>
The image of a cargo zeppelin recovering a disabled grav APC is <BR>
somewhat appealing to me for some reason.<BR>
<BR>
Reference the local support of the Allied war effort in the Burma-Indochina<BR>
theater of war during World War II. Airfields were created and maintained <BR>
entirely through hand labor, as no bulldozers could be brought  to many <BR>
sites. Some downed aircraft were recovered, at least for parts, by use of <BR>
elephants or other beasts of burden.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:22:06 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Walter Smith wrote:<BR>
> The image of a cargo zeppelin recovering a disabled grav APC is <BR>
> somewhat appealing to me for some reason.<BR>
<BR>
Or even Medievil knights in battle crying<BR>
"Bring forth the holy hand grenade!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Proverb: Foolish are those who play Twister on the stairs."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:42:09 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
>From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
><BR>
>	You have forgotten one solution. Similar situation to #3, but instead<BR>
>of a flat bed, use a crane or external grapple. Like from a helicopter.<BR>
>Recovery vehicle descends, large claws extends around the disabled<BR>
>vehicle (or ship and pick it up and move slowly off.<BR>
<BR>
Last night I was thumbing through my GURPS Traveller books and for the <BR>
"first" time noticed the 48-ton grav lifter in Far Trader. While designed to <BR>
carry cargo containers at a starport, it has the lift to carry half the <BR>
vehicles in Star Mercs.<BR>
<BR>
I've done some work on a larger, military version (GTL 10, 200 ton lift, <BR>
enclosed two-man crew). It is actually cheaper than the 48-ton grav lifter <BR>
(which is GTL 8). However, it has a very poor Health (6), even with the <BR>
heaviest frame available (I may just have to add a large amount of empty <BR>
space to make the body more robust).<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:50:10 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
>From: Erwin Fritz <efritz@GLJA.com><BR>
><BR>
>I missed the original post, so forgive me if this has been mentioned<BR>
>before.<BR>
><BR>
>Why not have the recovery vehicle's crew simply attach portable antigrav<BR>
>units to the downed vehicle. Use these units to get the vehicle floating<BR>
>again, and have them slaved to the recovery vehicle. Then just tow the<BR>
>vehicle home.<BR>
<BR>
As the original poster:<BR>
<BR>
Yes, this was one of my options (mainly if the CG units were destroyed or <BR>
badly damaged). If the disabled vehicle's CG units were still functional, <BR>
you could run a power cable from the recovery vehicle to the disabled <BR>
vehicle to power them (you would, of course, still need a tow cable or bar <BR>
or hitch). The problem arises when the vehicle is damaged to the point where <BR>
it may break up if you tried towing it.<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:06:09 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: elfman@pacificnet.net<BR>
<BR>
At 06:27 PM 11/9/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>I don't know if word 2000 will open it, but I am willing to try it. Anything<BR>
>would be cool since I have a whole campaign to create from scratch and I was<BR>
>going to use my computer to generate and create most of the characters and<BR>
>maps. I could do it my self (lack of personal time right now) here are so<BR>
>many people on this list.<BR>
><BR>
>Best Regards,<BR>
>William<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Hi, William!<BR>
        Check my website (URL below) for a Classic Traveller character gen<BR>
program...  it'll help you out.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:<BR>
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Into Traveller?  Check Out:<BR>
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:14:02 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Why do we need a separate vechile. Why can't we have a control module, and<BR>
a series of standard grav lift modules of which are self powered.<BR>
that you attach to the disabled vechile. The whole thing is controlled by<BR>
wireless communication. You can use standard g cargo carriers to transport<BR>
the modules and the recovery crew out to the disabled vechile site. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 12:54:38 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
>From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
><BR>
>Why do we need a separate vechile. Why can't we have a control module, and<BR>
>a series of standard grav lift modules of which are self powered.<BR>
>that you attach to the disabled vechile. The whole thing is controlled by<BR>
>wireless communication. You can use standard g cargo carriers to transport<BR>
>the modules and the recovery crew out to the disabled vechile site.<BR>
<BR>
Current recovery vehicles are also designed to do repairs in the field <BR>
(changing engines, gun barrels, etc.). That is, an ARV is supposed to fix a <BR>
vehicle in the field if it can, tow it back to a repair base if it can't. A <BR>
vehicle designed solely to lift a disabled vehicle (and not repair it) is <BR>
not very cost effective, unless you have only a few issued per army and use <BR>
normal ARVs for the bulk of recovery/repair work.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:31:44 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: MArc Millers T5 Webpage<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
<BR>
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Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>
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<BR>
I looked at the page, as promised - and (to be honest) downloaded it so I<BR>
could edit it. The problem is a chunk of binary data before the <meta> tags.<BR>
I can't load it or validate it in anything, but my virus checker reports it<BR>
as SMIME data when it looks for viruses in it. Either way, it needs to be<BR>
removed - which is a problem since it looks to be the text as well.<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01BF2AF1.6FEAB180--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:29:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Dev Landrel<BR>
<BR>
>From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>Care to enlighten me about Dev Landrel?<BR>
<BR>
Dev Landrel is a Close Encounter in an early JTAS<BR>
issue.  He was a rich lunatic who was obsessed with<BR>
the Ancients, and was often involved in smuggling real<BR>
or fake ancient artifacts.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:15:49 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Vilani Dictionary<BR>
<BR>
	I am looking for a Vilani dictionary, to translate some things into<BR>
Vilani. I'd rather use an established list rather than making up my own<BR>
(I'm lazy that way). Web site references are better. I know about the<BR>
traveller culture list. <BR>
<BR>
	Thanks<BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:35:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Eric T. Holmes" <eholmes@lanl.gov><BR>
Subject: RE:  ...Rememberance<BR>
<BR>
All:<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to thank all fellow vets for a job well done, wherever you served,<BR>
whatever service you served in, and whatever country you served for.<BR>
<BR>
As an ex-soldier, it matters not, for we'll all get served at Odin's table!<BR>
<BR>
Sempre Fi, Mac!<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
"...when I made you an officer, I expected you to know when to disobey me!"<BR>
Prince Maurice of Saxony to a Captain of the Line infantry after he failed to<BR>
inform the good Prince that he was wrong to have ordered an attack.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:24:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani PoWs<BR>
<BR>
>Sounds alot like a ST:TNG episode (forget the name but I think it<BR>
>was a two-parter) where  Klingon  POWs  were  living  with  their<BR>
>Romulan captors.<BR>
<BR>
I remember that one.  Worf was there and fell in love with the young klingon<BR>
girl until he found out she was half romulan.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 15:53:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cultures (WAS Evolution...) Longish<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>         Anyone remember the cheesy sci-fi about the humans on the Arc?<BR>
>><BR>
>> Peez<BR>
><BR>
> Earthship Ark.  Had an actor that was later Chekov (SP?) didn't it?<BR>
<BR>
Or it could be "The Starlost" which was a *real* atrocity, especially<BR>
considering how *good* the original premise was.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:33:11 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Dictionary<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Thom Jones-Low wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 	I am looking for a Vilani dictionary, to translate some things into<BR>
> Vilani. I'd rather use an established list rather than making up my own<BR>
> (I'm lazy that way). Web site references are better. I know about the<BR>
> traveller culture list. <BR>
<BR>
I'm in the process of getting my version of a Vilani lexical database sent<BR>
to Jeff Zeitlin, who is going to do something unspeakably technical to it<BR>
and combine it with some others that we've been working on.  Something<BR>
should be available in a week or so with a good 1600+ entries.  Keep in<BR>
touch with us and the Trav-Cult list.<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:19:49 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild Blue Claims<BR>
<BR>
>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
>I HATE the whole social history movement. While I <BR>
>think it's very important to study the "little <BR>
>man/woman" to get the whole picture of history, <BR>
>I reject the notion that one shouldn't study the <BR>
>movers and shakers (i.e., the rulers, leaders, etc.).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Seth, I think that you and I are largely in agreement,<BR>
at least as stated in the second sentence.  I<BR>
disagree, however, that <BR>
<BR>
>The problem with social history, is that until<BR>
> democracy, the little man/woman didn't DO a whole<BR>
> hell of a lot. It's more interesting to study <BR>
> the leaders.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, what ordinary people were doing, were wanting<BR>
to do, were lacking, etc., is the necessary background<BR>
to understanding the leaders themselves at any given<BR>
point in time.  To take an example from way back in<BR>
time, Moses may have convinced Pharoah to free the<BR>
slaves, but the slaves themselves were of substantial,<BR>
if not critical, importance to the Egyptian economy --<BR>
which was at least one reason for Pharoah to harden<BR>
his heart against letting the people go. <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:14:16 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
<BR>
At 06:07 PM 11/10/99 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>> FW: (Fwd) FW: IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......In time for Remembrance<BR>
Day..... <BR>
><BR>
>Not to rain on your parade, but I read this list precisely, among <BR>
>other things, to forget that there is people out there who choose to <BR>
>be soldiers and are ready to kill those of us who choose peace.<BR>
<BR>
So that's what armies are for. Wow! It's true, you do learn something new<BR>
every day.<BR>
<BR>
 You <BR>
>are entitled to your opinions, but I find this kind of things <BR>
>(specially when they are so long and band-wasting) barely appropriate <BR>
>for the TRAVELLER mailing list.<BR>
<BR>
I'm confused. Is it inappropriate because it glorifies violence-which never<BR>
happens in any traveller universe-or because it has a subtle nod to<BR>
patriotism and nationalism?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------<BR>
>Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
>Department of Economics, University of Vienna.<BR>
>Hohenstaufengasse, 9. 1010 Vienna (Austria)<BR>
>Tlf: (+43-1) 4277 37438  Fax: (+43-1) 4277 9374<BR>
>-----------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 17:20:16 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: ignorance of the law and secret laws<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
<BR>
>What about different sets of laws for citizens and <BR>
>non-citizens. In the U.S. (barring certain special <BR>
>rules applied under immigration laws) anyone within<BR>
>the country is subject to the same laws ... <BR>
[deletion]<BR>
>This is not necessarily a requirement. The Romans had<BR>
<BR>
>one set of laws for citizens and another for non-<BR>
>citizens. Is this the case in the Imperium? Do<BR>
>some laws only apply to the nobility, in both a <BR>
>negative and a positive sense?<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Imperium is of course a crazy hodge-podge of<BR>
local laws, so anything can happen on member states. <BR>
Imperial law in my Traveller universe has two major<BR>
divisions, general laws and the laws applicable only<BR>
to Imperial nobles.  Everybody -- commoners, nobles,<BR>
and corporations -- is subject to the general laws. <BR>
The laws applicable only to nobles include special tax<BR>
reporting, regulation of styles of address, sumptuary<BR>
laws, etc.  <BR>
<BR>
So in my Traveller universe, if the Duke and a<BR>
commoner conspired to steal from the Emperor, they<BR>
would both be guilty of lese-majeste and conspiracy to<BR>
commit theft.  The prosecutor would likely also charge<BR>
them with treason, but I'm not sure that charge would<BR>
stick; it would depend on what they were stealing, and<BR>
for what purpose.  (The Imperial Sceptre:  treason for<BR>
sure; a hand-made jewel-encrusted gold dining table<BR>
commissioned by the Emperor from artisans on Menorb: <BR>
probably not treason.)  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 16:58:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Travshorts II<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 07:49 PM 11/10/99 +1300, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> > Mmm... Elf...  The other white meat....<BR>
>><BR>
>>You leave Mr. Sternberg out of this.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Marc Miller wouldn't approve.<BR>
><BR>
> Huh?<BR>
<BR>
Do a web search for Elf SSternberg. He's a rather well known net<BR>
personality. And his series "the Journal Entries" is most definitely<BR>
not within the guidelines for Traveller. :-)<BR>
<BR>
But they are still worth reading.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1334<BR>
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